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December 19, 2008 at 10:24 pm
Bill, give me a call. I might want to write a column about your grassroots effort. Anne Denogean, 573-4582
December 19, 2008 at 10:25 pm
Oh yea, I didn’t fully identify myself. I’m a reporter with the Tucson Citizen.
December 25, 2008 at 9:19 pm
“As a prank, students from local high schools have been taking advantage of the county’s Speed Camera Program in order to exact revenge on people who they believe have wronged them in the past, including other students and even teachers.
Students from Richard Montgomery High School dubbed the prank the Speed Camera “Pimping” game, according to a parent of a student enrolled at one of the high schools.
Originating from Wootton High School, the parent said, students duplicate the license plates by printing plate numbers on glossy photo paper, using fonts from certain websites that “mimic” those on Maryland license plates. They tape the duplicate plate over the existing plate on the back of their car and purposefully speed through a speed camera, the parent said. The victim then receives a citation in the mail days later. ”
http://www.thesentinel.com/302730670790449.php
January 6, 2009 at 4:10 pm
Your interview on KNST rocked! Fantastic job!
January 6, 2009 at 6:07 pm
Great website for info on photo radar cameras: http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/
January 9, 2009 at 12:37 am
I heard there was a petition drive in the works to hold a referendum on these aberations. Where do I sign up? Tucson & all of Arizona should rise up against this blatant invasion of privacy. The proponents of cameras always say it’s for “$afety”…You decide…
January 9, 2009 at 12:50 am
BTW, big ups to FARK.com for highlighting a story about this from Virginia. That’s where I got the link to CameraFRAUD Tucson.
January 9, 2009 at 12:54 am
Also, your time stamps are off by 7 hrs… It’s only 5:55 PM Jan 8th here in Tucson…Lol!
January 9, 2009 at 1:27 am
I’m not sure what’s causing that, I will look into it.
January 9, 2009 at 1:28 am
The petition needs to filed 1st, we are working on submitting it as we speak. I will keep everyone informed on when are where we will be to sign…
January 9, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Hey!
Ann Denogean wrote a great article in the Tucson Citizen finally!
http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/daily/local/107174.php
January 9, 2009 at 4:27 pm
Thank you Bill,
I have been in law enforcement for 14 years. I started out as a police officer in a local muicipality in Illinois. I have issued several traffic sitations from equipment violations to DUI’s. I moved to Tucson 7 years ago to join a federal agency. The Photo Enforcement programs are such a grievious violation of the responsibility that government holds to protect and serve the people.
This has nothing to do with protect and serve. This is pure taxation. The Photo Radar Enforcement program is simply a means for the state of Arizona and other municipalities to generate more revenue to help balance their budgets. The legislation see this as pure revenue generation and not public safety, even though they will promote it in the name of public safety. I believe in the rule of law, public safety and serving the people. This is the responsibilty of a law enforcement professional that uses discretion.
However, there is no money in investigating burglaries or investigating traffic accidents. This further diminishies the profession and the attitude people have towards law enforcement. The Tucson City Council, Pima County Board of Supervisors and others must stay out of the business of law enforcement before they ruin that too. Hint, Hire more public safety officials and lose Big Brother.
Andrew Montalbano
Tucson, AZ
January 9, 2009 at 8:30 pm
This is taxation without representation and a violation of privacy. Minnesotans got rid of these “Big Brother” devices and so can we!
January 10, 2009 at 1:57 am
So where do I go to sign the ballot initiative petition that I have heard about on the radio?
January 10, 2009 at 9:10 pm
It should be an easy matter to mail a petition for stopping the speed trap cameras to every person who received a ticket. The names and addresses are in a public data base, and conform to DOT records. The response and validation rates should be high.
The main arguments I have against speed trap cameras are as follows:
We are turning the entire state of Arizona into a gigantic speed trap. Make no mistake, speed traps work. They work, on a smaller scale, for the same reason police states work, which have been shown repeatedly to be the most effective means of law enforcement ever devised. So I pose two questions: 1) Do a majority of the citizens of Arizona really want to live in a speed trap? and 2) Is it wise for a state that depends heavily on tourism to be a speed trap? I suspect many potential visitors will be offended by overbearing traffic law enforcement and plan to spend their money somewhere else. A small drop in tourism could easily wipe out all of the revenue collected by the speed traps.
Perhaps we should change the state motto: Welcome to Arizona, the Speed Trap State.
January 11, 2009 at 12:44 am
Are all of you really as stupid as you make yourselves appear?
Taxation? Revenue generation? Entrapment?
Don’t speed. Don’t run the red light. $0.00 for the municipality.
It really is that basic. Don’t break the law and there will be no citations issued.
Bill, get out of law enforcement (again).
January 11, 2009 at 3:05 am
Mr. Garman,
We welcome comments from everyone. Even those that are ignorant to the issue at hand.
You are entitled to your opinion and I would defend your right to say what’s on your mind.
Thank you for your comments.
- Bill
January 11, 2009 at 5:24 am
Mr. Garman,
The bottom line is that the cameras are not the best way to protect our streets. There is far to much room for error. When the chance of error is so high, citizens need to take action and question the motives behind the cameras as well as protect our rights and the process of democracy. Especially with the red lights, the cameras do not take into account things such as cars stalling in front of you or people pulling into businesses and slowing the flow of traffic down. Many of us have been wrongly convicted of running red lights when in reality we were stuck in the middle of an intersection due to a car in front of us.
And Bill, I applaud you.
January 11, 2009 at 4:25 pm
If you are traveling south on Oracle to take a left on River, Beware. The intersection, as defined by the city, can be as much as 2 to 3 seconds beyond the stop line. If you get stuck behind a slow driver making a left turn you may get your picture taken. The city refuses to recognize the problem and states that the yellow to red time is what is established by national standards. The problem is that the intersection is not “normal”. Too many good drivers are being penalized. The timing of the yellow should be increased or the stop line extended into the intersection.
January 11, 2009 at 7:38 pm
I am glad to see everyone finally coming together to attempt to stop Big Brother from pushing their agenda down our throats. Good job Bill!
January 11, 2009 at 7:54 pm
Does anyone know the name of the elderly gentlelman that was cited for stalling?
- bill
January 11, 2009 at 8:33 pm
I think the argument becomes even stronger if we can propose better solutions to Tucson’s traffic problems (at less cost) than the proliferation of red-light running cameras. This could refute the argument that these cameras are for safety only (which would be made in court).
January 11, 2009 at 11:53 pm
Where do I Sign your petition? Do you have a mailing list? The reason the posts state that you make them at a different time is that the the wordpress servers are somewhere else, not in tucson or misconfigured.
January 12, 2009 at 1:04 am
Put me down to circulate the petition in Tucson when it is ready!
January 12, 2009 at 1:05 am
Oh, and, btw “Mr.” Gorman…BITE ME!
January 12, 2009 at 4:14 am
I witnessed the fraud at Oracle and River when my wife drove thru the intersection going North west onto River Road on Dec 26 in the middle of a heavy shopping day. I was sitting in the passenger seat as an observer/witness. Unlike many others today, I can certainly afford to pay the ticket and the extra insurance without refinancing my house. But, I’d rather give it to the poor though instead of the (in this instance) Fascist city regime. This is a ridiculous injustice. As we were a literally a few feet from entering the intersection on a green light, probably accelerating at around 20-25 mph behind other cars, the light turned yellow. If we were 3-10 feet from the intersection, I’d tell you that. And we know there are cameras there, and were trying to obey the law. No problem I thought. But if if we had cars behind us (thank god there were not any) and we jammed on the brakes as soon as the light turned yellow, there would have been an accident. And I know the guy behind us would be at fault but that would have been no consolation as I would have been decapitated and unable to write this epistle. As we proceeded through the intersection, the cars in front of us slowed in the middle of the intersection, and almost 3/4 of the way through the light turned red, bam, there were two camera flashes. There was another car in the lane next to us that did the same thing we did as he was even with us as we went thru the intersection. Two flashes occured and my wife exclaimed, it took our picture and we’re going to get a ticket. We were shocked! I could not believe it. Well, no ticket yet, But its only Jan 11 but she seems sure we’ll get one and if we do this whole thing stinks. But I also don’t like my picture being taken without my authorization, that gives me a feeling that we’re in some fascist state.
Now technically speaking, from what I’ve read, this may be running a red light because the light turned yellow just before (I swear by my mother a few feet) as we reached the intersection. And the city is banking on this as you’ve explained in this website. Had a police officer witnessed this issue, it would have been his judgment call and I’m near positive he would have agreed that we did not run the red. Again, had we jammed on the brakes as soon as that yellow hit, we would have swerved into the other lane or someone behind us would have plowed into us. I know about safe distance behind the other car and all that, but even so, jamming on brakes in that instance would have just been insane.
I’ve been a little freaked out since this occurrence and I’ve jammed on the brakes on quick yellow since then, very risky! I did it at Costco drive and Thornydale from about five feet from the intersection going 40 mph, thank god no one was behind me!
Now my wife and I are over 50 years old, I’ve had some doozie tickets in the past and absolutely been admittedly wrong on those violations, and I’m perfectly willing to vouch for the city and admit my wife’s wrongdoing if she was wrong or in any way here and she violated the law and is guilty! She’s rarely been ticked, maybe twice in her life, knows the laws and is a total Type A about obeying the law. And like me, she is the kind of person who would readily accept this if it were the correct thing. But she is not guilty on this one folks! And for God sakes if they must stick cameras down our throats, at least make them work properly and serve justice 100% of the time!
I agree that something needs to be done about this injustice on River and Oracle! She has not even been served yet with a ticket and I’m steamed. But we have a sick feeling that a nice fat ticket is on its way. She was in tears…
A few weeks before the incident, at the same intersection, I saw two people taking pictures of the intersection, traffic camera angles and seemed to be making meticulous notes of cars passing thru. It Looked like they were trying to gather evidence and documentation.
I suspect there are a lot of folks out there who feel wronged by River and Oracle camera fraud. I will use La Cholla and Wetmore to get to the mall and back from now on…period.
Until this incident, I was ok with the cameras myself but this just is scary. If enough police officers, mayor’s wives, judges and their children, city big wigs, high ranking business folks get nailed unjustly, watch the momentum swing toward getting justice. Unfortunately, I’m sure some legit red light runners have been nailed and rightly so, and their cases will be thrown out along with everyone else’s someday when this scam is overturned by citizen outrage.
Some who read this might say, “he’s just a malcontent who’s family member got nailed and he’s pissed about it.” Again, I’m willing to take the consequences when justice is served. For those of you who doubt what is going on here, beware, it may very well happen to you! If you use that intersection, I’m sorry, your time is coming!
Good luck, thanks for letting me vent, I know I won’t be able to present my case before a judge. Notify me of the petition, I’ll follow up/if/when we receive the citation.
January 13, 2009 at 12:08 am
I received a citation for going through the yellow light. The video shows my front tires were on the front line when the light turned red.
My issue is that I received a letter from an outfit in Phoenix with my name and address telling me they would sell me a package to tell me how to get around paying and going to school. They also sell a reflective (supposedly legal) paint to spray your license plate so the camera cannot read it.
Is it legal for them to get my name and address the proposed court date or from the Tucson City Police?
January 13, 2009 at 6:58 am
Mr. Evans, Thank you for your post. I was ticketed at that intersection as a result of cars pulling right into businesses just after the intersection and holding traffic up. I took the class, but paying for that was hard because as a single mom who works in social services and is in graduate school, even the cost of the class set me back. The increase in my insurance will set me back even further.
Thanks for letting me know I am not alone.
January 16, 2009 at 5:54 pm
Tammy – If any part of your car was in the intersection when the light went to steady red alone, then you did not violate 28-645. I’ve seen couple of citations on which someone has actually put a notation “back wheels not into intersection,” which suggests to me that someone thinks the entire car has to be past the prolongation line. That ignores what the statute actually says. The language of the statute requires traffic to “stop before entering the intersection.” If a car not completely within the intersection has not “entered,” this would mean that you could stop with just your rear bumper outside the intersection, blocking one lane of the intersecting street, and still be in compliance with the law. That’s ridiculous.
Change of subject – I hate these cameras, even though I have not been snapped by them. I’m worried, though, that this initiative has some imprecise language that will be used to frustrate proper law enforcement. What exactly does “detect” mean? As this measure is now written, there is a good chance that it would mean that video of drunk drivers at the roadside are “detecting” an offense “related to operation of a motor vehicle,” and that every case where a video has been made will have to be dismissed, even if there is abundant other evidence. The same argument will be made in cases of vehicular homicide. I can virtually assure you that the defense bar will be making that argument if this thing passes in its present form. And I assume that opponents of the measure will be pointing this out to get it defeated. The measure needs to be revised to define “detect” (or use some other word) and to make it clear that its addressing civil traffic violations, Why did anyone think this should extend to criminal cases, anyway?
January 16, 2009 at 6:00 pm
As a clarification of the comment above, please note that the measure defines “Photo Enforcement System” to include any “radar unit OR SENSOR linked to a camera or recording device…” Every digital still camera and every video camera, digital or analog, meets that definition.
February 19, 2009 at 11:55 pm
I’ve tried to get this information out. The guy that sends out solicitations for information about how to get out of red light ticket is correct. If you have NO contact with the court they MUST serve you via a process server to make the ticket stick (official). If no server gets you ( and they only get paid $26) the ticket will be (must be ) DISMISSED after 120. I got a phony one in November and paid the $58.00 for the information. My ticket was dismissed by the court 2/11/09. He saved me $198.00. I’m trying to tell everyone. DO NOT CONTACT THE COURT. Make them serve you. They will be overwhelmed. Better yet stop this invasion of our rights.
February 22, 2009 at 4:28 am
Unfortunately, they are serving more people here in Tucson. At least, I got served about 2 weeks after my response was due.
Just a tip. From the few people I have heard from, the process servers show up evenings, especially Sunday evening.
And no matter how clear you make it to family members NOT to answer the door, they always do.
February 28, 2009 at 2:01 am
Ok folks let’s talk about the potential positives the technology could offer.
IT COULD DRASTICALLY DECREASE TRAVEL TIMES! Our roads are overcrowded by people who drive because it seems it only costs as much as the gas to do so.
If a fairer way of collecting the cost of driving was implemented it would be far cheaper to do so as far fewer people would drive! That way is to use camera’s, GPS, electronic payment etc. Fatalities would become almost nonexistent, congestion would be sorely missed as bridges would not be demolished but rather maintained since they would be too wide already but still need fiberglass wrapped around there supports etc. as the built in obsolescence of ever more certain need for more and more lanes at every greater exaction of blood and treasure, lungs and liberty, WOULD END IN A FLASH!
Perhaps some here are opposed to that. They enjoy stepping on innocents when they step on the pedal anonymously, without a care, fearing only that perhaps someday they will REALLY be caught.
The speed limit would increase of course. Not that it would need to, as all green lights can be timed after the first stop and even that can be avoided via communication with your car before you arrive to speed up or slow down. But it would increase because it doesn’t matter how fast you are going if you don’t have to prepare to stop possibly and only need to slow down when you know you will have to.
To like the way things are, or used to be recently, is insane. IT USED TO BE NECESSARY. NOW, now it is absolutely optional. Who wins by denying progress? Those who profit from ground up brake pads, wasted cars, wandering across lanes drunkards. Not me. Hopefully that’s not you either!
February 28, 2009 at 6:36 am
Sorry Belinda but no exceptions…THE CAMERAS MUST GO!
April 1, 2009 at 5:30 am
When you put a 35 mile an hour speed zone on a major street six lanes wide, I would call that a trap. When the speed changes from 35 mph to 45 mph within three miles that is a speed trap. On the highway and other places I am not in favor even if it does slow people down they just slam on the brakes in between the cameras and if they are going to speed they are going to do it in between the cameras. I mean come on most people take the same routes day after day. It is not worth the money to take our officers off the street. An officer can at least determine wheather you deserve a warning or a ticket. But most of all the waist of tax payers money without even voting on it is what really ticks me off. God Help us all that now we have to spend time an more money to tear it down. WE JUST CAN’T WIN can we.
April 1, 2009 at 3:21 pm
Any word on the status of the petitions or the drive to take the cameras down?
April 4, 2009 at 1:54 am
Sorry Law Asucking Afterbirth but the cams ARE coming down and there is nothing an afterbirth like you (the best part of which ran down it’s fathers leg) can do to keep them up. Go kill yourself and quit trying to interact with humans.
BTW, it’s a shame that your parents had no children that lived.
April 4, 2009 at 2:08 pm
I wasn’t joking afterbirth, go kill yourself.
April 8, 2009 at 3:17 pm
Actually Republican trash you won’t hear further from me, this is the last time I’ll waste time on shit like you.
Regardless of your opinion, wants, desires or anything, the cameras will come down. Thank you for your stupid and even moronic commentary though, it’s pushed me to redouble my own personal efforts in doing anything I can to help remove the cameras and help change the law statewide.
Buh bye freak.
April 11, 2009 at 8:19 pm
Hi everyone, Glyph here. Did you hear the good news?
April 15, 2009 at 12:30 am
ARS codes 28-701 and 28-702 should make for some interesting reading that believes law enforcment has exceeded it bounds. The law allows the driver freedom to use reasonable and prudent to control the speed of a vehicle, and becuase the cameras are there, intimidation is being imposed onto that decision rather then the use of reasonable and prudent thought of the circumstances, conditions and actual and potential hazards then existing. Also the law allows you to go twenty miles above the posted speed limit in residentual or business district. The cameras are a form not seen since colonial days, where the enforcers dictated enforcement instead of the governed. We need to return to a volunteer police force, like days gone by, to remove the greed and profit making of enforcing laws.
April 15, 2009 at 1:27 am
By the way, the above discussion has centered on what is an intersection? The definition can be clearly defined as the lines marking a crosswalk as dictated in Aritcle 10 (Pedestrians rights and duties) in the Arizona Statutes Codes in ARS 28-791,”Pedestrians… at intersections”"crossing a roadway… except IN a crosswalk”, ARS 28-792,B,”If a vehicle is stopped at a marked crosswalk OR AT AN UNMARKED crosswalk at an intersection TO PERMIT A PEDESTRIAN TO CROSS”, and ARS 28-793,C,”Between adjacent intersections… except IN a marked crosswalk”. If a person walked outside the inner marked zone of the intersection, it can be concluded that he is in the intersection, and whether 51% of the vehicle going beyond the innermost marked zone should be considered as in the intersection and whether the car was in the intersection when the lights turned red, food for thought.
April 15, 2009 at 2:27 am
Say goodbye to your posts again Law…the owner of this page already nuked your posts and your other name in the past, I wouldn’t be surprised to see your new one gone in a day or two also, much like the cameras will be. BTW, neither you, your opinion nor your existence matter…go kill yourself afterbirth Republican.
April 15, 2009 at 2:27 am
BTW “Law” meet me and I will be the only one leaving the scene.
April 15, 2009 at 4:32 pm
You have no need for a picture, just set a time, date and place and we’ll see who needs an ambulance to leave afterward.
May 8, 2009 at 2:19 am
My husband just got a ticket for the Oracle/River camera. He was southbound on Oracle, turning left onto River.
In the citation, they give him a website where you can view the video of the “infraction”. Well, guess what?? He was well past the light and into the intersection before the yellow arrow turned red!!!
You can stop the video and the exact time that the light turns red, and there is no doubt that he was in.
Now we are struggling with whether he should miss a day of work to contest this. Is anyone else having success contesting these tickets???
May 8, 2009 at 4:20 pm
First, are you SURE he was in? The state defines an intersection as the prolongation of the curb line. For reference, at Oracle/River, the crosswalk is NOT in the intersection, nor is the roughly 20 feet of dead-man’s-land in front of it. The intersection begins at the line where it says “WAIT” on the pavement. Did the front bumper of the vehicle break that plane before the light turned red?
If the answer is NO, then if your husband fights his ticket, he will be found responsible. (I fought my Oracle/River ticket in court last week and was found responsible–in spite of the fact that the plaintiff lied under oath, presented hearsay as fact, and submitted false evidence–which I proved beyond a reasonable doubt. (I’m appealing the decision.)
On another note, the Oracle/River intersection’s left yellow is intentionally short (3.05 seconds). Most other left yellow arrows at similar intersections around town are 4 seconds. That extra second makes all the difference in the world: note how there are no photo enforcement cameras at those intersections. (I was .25 seconds “late” entering the intersection, so the extra second would’ve saved me $280 and a ton of hassle.) Also note how the “intersection” begins 34 feet after the “STOP” line on the pavement (ajacent to the traffic control signal). If the city had ANY INTEREST WHATSOEVER in REDUCING red light “runners,” they would extend the median and move the signal closer to where the intersection technically begins.
By why REDUCE red light runners when every time you CATCH one you score $190/$280(defensive driving/pay the ticket)? The Oracle/River intersection is clearly entrapment, and the city is making millions a year by violating the expectation of thousands of safe, prudent, conscientious drivers.
June 2, 2009 at 3:47 pm
Just got a ticket for running a red light at 22nd & Wilmot. I KNOW it was yellow when I entered the intersection to make a right hand turn from 22nd onto northbound Wilmot. The photo shows my front tires just touching the line at the far end of the curb; speed 19 mph. Do I stand a chance of getting this ticket dismissed at a hearing? I am NOT the red light runner they are after (just want my $$, I realize); no other tickets; conservative driver, etc. etc. Appreciate your input.
June 2, 2009 at 4:34 pm
First, if by “ticket” you mean the one you received iin the mail, ignore it. You have no legal obligation to respond. They have to serve you personally (come to your house and HAND you your ticket). If they don’t do that within 120 of the date the “ticket” was issued, then it’s automatically dismissed.
Second, to answer your question, no, your ticket will not be dismissed. And believe me, I feel for you: I thought I wasn’t the red light runner they were after either. Fact of the matter we’re EXACTLY the “red light runners” they’re after. At $280 a pop, anybody they can “catch” (read: “generate” based on deliberately poorly designed and operated intersections) is.
Infuriating, huh?
June 2, 2009 at 8:08 pm
Wendy, I feel for you too. These cameras are being abused. Today is thank a cop day (Thank you for your work, Bill!), but these cameras make it harder for me to do that.
Ditto to what Cathy said. If you ignore the illegal mailed “Notice of Violation”, make sure you don’t answer your doorbell. If you do, you can get served with the real ticket. If you do get served, you are screwed unless you lie and say it was not you driving.
Also, make sure you sign the petition to ban these things.
June 3, 2009 at 7:01 pm
I received a notice in the mail on Monday asking me to identify the person driving my car at the 22nd/Wilmot intersection. It is clearly not me and that is why they sent me a notice asking me to send them the name address and DL number of the person that was driving my car at the time. Am I legally required to answer this letter? I know who was driving the car, but could have sworn I read an article in the paper not too long ago that stated the registered owner is not legally required to respond to a request to identify the driver of their vehicle. Anyone know if this is true? I don’t feel that I should have to tell the court who was driving my car since they can clearly not prove it was me (it was a woman behind the wheel).Like Wendy, the ticket was issued for running a red light while the person was making a right hand turn. Last time I checked, it is legal to make a right hand turn on a red light so long as there is no oncoming traffic, which there was not. There is no sign at the intersection that says “No Turns on Red.” Thanks
June 3, 2009 at 8:16 pm
I avoid those intersections with cameras like the plague. What happens if a bus stops in front of you….that’s another issue…why are the bus stops on the wrong side of the intersection causing people to stop in the intersection?
Also, I sat at 22/wilmot light and watched as at least 10 people going through on a GREEN arrow all got flashed. Do they all have to waste their time and money to defend themselves in court?
These cameras are total BS.
June 4, 2009 at 4:15 pm
John Wayne — You are under NO legal obligation to disclose who was driving the vehicle. Absolutely do not respond to their request/threats.
Don M — Most people don’t bother defending themselves in court. They either shell out the $190 for traffic school or the $280 for the ticket. And the people who DO defend themselves are invariably (yeah, I said “invariably”) found responsible. It’s a huge scam.
Those cameras are coming down.
June 8, 2009 at 12:54 am
Cathy is RIGHT!! I threw out the ticket. I got served because I have teenagers who can’t remember simple instructions like “Don’t answer the door on Sunday night.”
I did not get charged one cent for being served. They most they can charge you is $25.
I put off the court date twice, then went to court and accepted the driving school they offer you at the last minute.
It’s a scam, but remember. Each ticket is at least one vote. Just work to get it on the ballot.
June 8, 2009 at 3:15 pm
I’m from Yuma and was in Tucson for U of A graduation. I was nailed at Oracle and River after sunset. Nowhere else have I seen an intersection with a “Wait” line past the crosswalk and stop line. What makes it worse is the fact that it was dark and I was unfamiliar with the area. I would just do traffic safety school, but I have a CDL. So I am screwed. Does anyone know what the chances of getting served here in Yuma and who would serve me. Thanks
June 25, 2009 at 12:28 pm
no zebra…. for those that stand and take responsibility for their actions….. it is not another vote…. and from the looks of this site… there is zero passion in tucson to do anything about the cameras… get used to them, they are staying !!
June 25, 2009 at 3:09 pm
no Thunder…. for those that stand and take responsibility for their actions….. it is another vote…. and from the looks of this site… there is huge passion in all of Arizona to do something about the cameras… Don’t get used to them, they aren’t staying. (Sorry Thunder, aka Law Abiding Citizen).
June 25, 2009 at 5:43 pm
sorry bob…what passion are you talking about? until i posted today on this thread there was no posts for 3 weeks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PASSION? are you kidding?
same with all the other threads !! 3 weeks go by without any posts !! how is the signature counts? you dont know cause they sont want you to know… they are not going to come close to the amount needed….
where is wild bill? even he has fallen asleep at teh wheel !
June 26, 2009 at 2:15 pm
this place is such a disappointment that there is not even a link to get here at the mother site !!
June 26, 2009 at 6:28 pm
If you are so disappointed then don’t bother coming back. Your obviously FOR the cameras else there would be no negativity from you.
In regards the passion, just because you don’t know whats going on doesn’t mean that nothing IS going on. Many things are being done to down the cameas…we just aren’t posting everything. If you camera advocates knew what all was going on then you MIGHT be able to counter it…so we don’t tell you. As for signature counts…you simply do not need to know. Your precious cameras will be made illegal…count on it.
June 27, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Where can you go to sign the petition?
June 27, 2009 at 9:12 pm
oh robert you are so covert!!! you have nothing going on… you cant raise awareness in silent !! no reason to be ashamed of the failure…
you are not that high in the organization…. quit pretending !!!
June 28, 2009 at 7:35 am
No, not covert, we just have no need to consult nor get approval from those very, very few who like the cameras. Neither I nor anyone involved with helping make these scams come down has anything to be ashamed of and considering you are not, in any way involved with “the organization” you have not one inch to talk.
I still think your that inbred thing “Law A. Biding” that was thrown off here for his stupidity a while back.
Fact is, the cameras will be coming down and you cannot stop it.
June 30, 2009 at 2:25 am
false bravado bob !!! where do you think the vote will come to support the removal?
seniors 55 plus- no, they will vote to keep the cameras and they have a very good voting record
young adults 18-35 – probably a majority 70-30 support the anti crowd…. but their voting record is dismal
adults 35-55- i think it is probably 50/50 split with more women leaning towards the cameras staying and men for removal…. voting record better than younger crowd and nowhere close to seniors !!
you can pretend all you want that they are coming down and i guess that is how you must act to get up everyday and pretend as much !! but you know that the number of signatures is way to high of a mountain to climb !!! and really…. there is no support here and if it is not here… then it is not out there !!!
July 6, 2009 at 5:15 am
This last Saturday I was driving on River going east when I reached the River/Oracle intersection. The light turned yellow a few feet before I got to the intersection (I swear). Well, you have (micro)seconds to think whether or not you should push the brakes, and I hesitated to do it because of what has already been mentioned above by Mr. Evans. I am almost sure I will get a ticket for that, but I honestly think that is not fair. I am not the kind of person who tries to beat the light. I don’t drive my car like crazy, and I pretty much follow all the traffic signals.
If I did get the ticket, how long will it take for me to be informed about it? Is the amount still $280 ($190 + class)? How will it affect my car insurance?
I am just mad about it because I rarely take River or Oracle, the only day decided to do it, I got this wonderful surprise.
July 7, 2009 at 6:46 am
h e l l o robert rowley !!! you home?
July 19, 2009 at 12:51 am
First off, I would like to thank you for the wonderful work you’re doing and for having the guts to stand up so loudly and so publicly for what you believe in.
I was popped on I-19, south of I-10 for going 13 miles over the 55mph speed limit (ARS 28-702.01C)
The photo is of someone wearing glasses and yes, it looks like my car, but they’re thousands of “my type of car in Tucson.” The second photo is of my license plate number but the rest of the pic is so dark you can’t even tell it’s on a car and it certainly doesn’t say Arizona.
What do you suggest? If I go to court and fight it, I take it from what I hear that I will lose. But if I admit guilt, and throw myself at the mercy of the court (no tickets or accidents prior, lost job a few months ago) will they lower the fine or offer me traffic school at a lower fee? The $180.50 is pretty steep for someone who is trying to get by on unemployment.
Thanks again for your help and your input.
July 19, 2009 at 1:47 am
Just a bit more info-the person in the picture is wearing huge sunglasses and is about 50 pounds less and with much shorter hair than my drivers’ license shows.
I understand that I do not have to identify the driver. If I send back the notice of violation with an enlarged drivers’s license photo, what are my chances of having the ticket dismissed?
Thanks again
July 27, 2009 at 4:31 am
Roberta:
First..just ignore it. They still have to serve you. They will possibly try about 2 weeks after the “deadline” to respond. They will come to your home, usually on a Sunday night, at first.
If you get served, then you have to respond. If you send it back swearing it is not you, I do not know how that will play out. If it is you, then set a court date and take the class offer they offer you ONE LAST TIME right before your hearing. You won’t win your hearing, they don’t dismiss tickets or lower the fine. They have a little deal where you can plead guilty and do community service to pay off part of your fine, but I think you get points and your insurance goes up.
The class is extortion, but you can turn it into a positive. I took a petition to the class and spoke out often and pointedly using the talking points. I got such positive response, that I took the petition to work the next day and people were waiting in line to sign it!
I’m sorry it is a financial hardship. My guess is that you were going with the flow of traffic and not constantly watching the ever-changing speed limits. You may not win this one, but turn this into a positive. Learn the facts, get some signatures, and educate at least 5 friends about what is really going on.
July 27, 2009 at 3:44 pm
Zebra-
You are so kind to respond to me and for being compassionate to my situation. Those who give out these tickets would say. “If you can’t afford one, then obey the speed limit!” Yeah, like that’s possible in the real world.
Because this is an APS Notice of Violation, it says on the ticket that NO points will be assessed and the notice of violation is NOT subject to to dismissal due to defensive driving class. I believe I read that the city of Tucson, Pima Count, and the AZ Dept of Public Safety each have their own rules. Different rules-same violation. Gee, isn’t that fair??
And thanks for the talking points, I already have sent information on to many people so they will be prepared and can move others to act.
Is there a place where I can sign an electronic petition on the web, or does that not count legally?
Again, thank you for using the rights you were given as an American Citizen. We are liberal, conservative, in between, a mix of the above, or go issue-by-issue, but we can all stand together against this injustice which is taxation through the back door.
nil carborundum illegitimi-don’t let the bastards grind you down!
July 28, 2009 at 6:03 am
I live in Florence about 50 miles north of Tucson and in a diffrent county (pinal). today i received a photo ticket from Pima County Sheriff’s Dept. My 17 year old daughter was driving my car and went to Tucson. The short of it is she let someone she doesn’t really know that well use the car to run to the store. She doesn’t know the girls last name address or any other information on her she says. Out of the four options what should I do. The car is in my wife’s name and the picture shows that it is not my wife or daughter. Should I hold out for the 120 days to run out? or fill out option b and fill out that I do not know who the driver is. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank You
July 28, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Shane,
You are not required to show up to court unless you have been served by a process server… hopefully an honest one.
The “ticket” may say something like, if this is not you, please ID the person. You are under NO obligation to ID your daughter or any one else. There is nothing you need to do. If I were you I would throw it away… they cannot suspend your license or your daughters.
July 28, 2009 at 11:10 pm
I don’t know how far ranging the process servers are going these days.
I got my (red light) ticket from Tucson Municipal Court last October. I threw it away. At least 5 people have since told me they threw theirs away and nothing more happened.
I did get served, but I live in Tucson, at the same address for 20 years. Even though they had to personally serve me, I never had to pay the extra $25 ‘personal service’ fee they threaten you with.
So throwing it away is a clear winner IMHO.
July 28, 2009 at 11:29 pm
I don’t think people understand what’s going on with photo radar “tickets”;
- What’s sent in the mail IS NOT a citation. It’s typically sent by a private company, typically the vendor. It looks official but its not.
- You are not required to appear in court UNLESS you are properly served, by a process server. If you appear in court you waive your right to be served and you WILL lose your case. This scam is designed for you to lose.
- Sending a “Citation” in the mail is NOT proper service.
- You are NOT required to self investigate. If someone is driving your car and is caught by photo radar, you do NOT have to give that person up… unless you hate them.
If I were to get a photo radar ticket, I would throw it away. They will not suspend your license unless you are served and fail to appear.
August 4, 2009 at 5:54 pm
What is the current status of the citations issued by the City of Tucson intersection cameras in regards to going on your driving record for insurance companies to see? I’ve heard that if you pay at the initial “Notice of Violation” and don’t use your right to process serving or to be heard in court it does not go on you record. True?
August 6, 2009 at 1:00 am
Robert, I’m not sure what the City of Tucson’s policy is with respect to fighting your citation. I can tell you that they can not suspend your license OR submit any kind of notice to your insurance company until and unless you have been found guilty.
From everything I understand about civil court procedures, until you have been served, you are NOT obligated to appear in court.
The City of Tucson simply does NOT want people to fight these citations. The money is to important to them. I encourage EVERYONE to fight these by ignoring anything sent by mail and if your served, fight it in court.
August 7, 2009 at 9:03 pm
One of my acquaintances who is a Pima County Deputy told me one of ther other Deputies was answering an “Officer Down” call from TPD, and got a camera ticket for speeding through the intersection of Oracle and River. The fact that he answered that call is well documented, but they are still making him pay the ticket! I wonder if he will think twice in the future about helping out TPD?
August 10, 2009 at 4:13 pm
hey bass, why dont you just mind your own business instead of giving advise to all i will go back to ny when i am ready cant sell a house here again none of your business is it? some people like you just cant mind their business like if you dont agree with my comments again none of your business is it? maybe i can drive back to ny in my gremlin wity you in the car and we can sort this out ok big shot
August 11, 2009 at 6:15 pm
Mr. Bass,
If you call me a liar, there is absolutely no point in having a conversation with you. You are proof that the camera apologists are willing to stoop to anything to keep their scam going.
August 12, 2009 at 5:36 pm
Just a note…Bass has posted here on the forums in the past under many other names…all since removed, names blocked. Bass is the leader of the Pro Cam movement, a Republican and scared that he, his party and all of their agenda are becoming more and more unpopular with the American people.
Let it whine and snivel but ignore the afterbirth as the powerless, ineffective waste it is.
August 12, 2009 at 8:39 pm
Ernest T’s writing samples give him away.
Now, on to more important things, I just spent over an hour stopped on I-10 near Benson for two crashes in a the span of a few miles. The second one was right next to where a Redflex Photo Enforcement Zone has been all week. Looks like it was real effective in preventing crashes.
August 15, 2009 at 2:31 am
Mr. B ass
We get your point.. please feel free to move on..
August 15, 2009 at 7:47 am
Ernie, If I find you I will terminate you and ANYONE around you. Period.
August 17, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Hey, Bill,
Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to volunteer for this. I know it is hard to deal with the trolls, but there are a lot of good, reasonable people out there.
James
August 18, 2009 at 12:09 am
I was on the fence about photo enforcement until I received a citation in the mail from the Pima County Sheriff’s Department. I was furious at the receipt of the citation as I KNEW that I had not been “flashed” by any photo enforement camera. When looking at the pictures, it was clear that the County and photo enforcement is screwed up. The picture of the driver came from one vehicle and the FUZZY (at best) picture of the license plate was from a different vehicle…NEITHER of which belonged to me. Furthermore, neither of the vehicles were remotely similar to mine. I am very angry that the Pima County Sheriff’s Department has the nerve to send out such an inaccurate citation. They should be ashamed of themselves. Especially when there is the signature of a Sheriff underneath a statement that reads: “Based on my examination of digital images and data associated with this violation, I hereby certify that the person named herein committed the civil traffic violations listed above.” This is ridiculous since the pictures for this one violation come from two different vehicles. Just one more way law enforcement is losing their credibility.
August 18, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Hi Kirsten,
I suggest you show your Notice of Violation to the local media and let them make a story out of it. Also, it is not legally a citation until you are legally served – the US Mail is not a legal way to serve you. You can also choose to ignore it, and wait until they serve you. Don’t answer your doorbell. There is plenty of information about this over on the meetup group in the main camerafraud website.
August 18, 2009 at 6:46 pm
I agree with James. Take it to the news. Photo radar is a hot topic.
On another note, for anyone who questions whether the cams are there for safety or profit, check this out:
Every Monday through Friday on my way to work I drive eastbound on I-10 from northwest Tucson past downtown to the I-19 interchange. Anyone who frequents this route knows it’s been under construction (in both directions) for the last two years from Prince Road to 22nd–with speed limits consistently reduced to 55 (or, at times 45 when the conditions permit).
Over the last couple months, the construction has been wrapping up, and the permanent speed limits have been unveiled: 65 mph all the way through town. However, last week there was one exception–a single, temporary “Speed Limit 55″ sign located just prior to the Prince Road exit (where the construction had begun).
“Huh,” I thought. “Somebody must’ve forgotten to pick up that sign.” There was no construction paraphernalia in sight, the speed limit was 65 both before and after the sign, and 65 the whole way westbound.
Saturday evening I traveled the same stretch into town to attend an art opening, and guess what’s parked in the “Speed Limit 55″ zone? You guessed it. A mobile scam van. On my way home, I noticed from the other direction that the thing was going off like fireworks.
Come this morning, I travel through the same stretch again, and guess what? The temp speed limit sign is gone and the permanent 65 mph sign posted.
Safety shmafety. DPS ought to be ashamed of itself.
August 18, 2009 at 11:27 pm
Cathy,
I saw that 55 zone too and wondered why it was there, because construction was finished, and the further down where construction was still occurring it was 65. Now I know why.
There is frequently one on I-10 out by Willcox. I don’t know why they bother out there – there is hardly any traffic, and I rarely see anyone doing more than 5 or so mph over the limit. I wouldn’t think it there would be enough tickets to be worth their while. There certainly has never been a crash out there that I have seen – it is very safe.
August 19, 2009 at 4:30 am
Oh, another thing, Kristen,
Since you clearly were not the one in the photos, you should also call your County Supervisor and complain about it. What happened to you reminds me of when I went through immigration in Italy – the inspector was happily stamping everyone’s passport without looking at the photos inside or at the person who was carrying it. He was too busy talking about sports with his colleague.
Ann Day, District 1
(520) 740-2738
Ramón Valadez, District 2
(520) 740-8126
Sharon Bronson, District 3
(520) 740-8051
Ray Carroll, District 4
(520) 740-8094
Richard Elías, Chairman, District 5
(520) 740-8126
August 19, 2009 at 9:55 pm
Barney Fife… don’t be a dumbass and make this a Republican vs. Democrat issue. You only make yourself look stupid.
My pregnant nurse wife with zero violations in her life got a red light violation mailed to her… the infamous River and Oracle intersection got her making a left turn with the “wait” line. Making law abiding citizens into criminals what a corrupt system.
One thing the city has accomplished is to make me an activist against this tyranny. I will be donating to the state fair booth to get the signatures needed for the 2010 ballot. We will get this banned statewide.
Keep up the good work.
August 20, 2009 at 2:17 pm
LOL perhaps Ernest… perhaps…
I like your reference… clever…
Hail the flashes! Heil Hitler!
I see what you are trying to accomplish. Thanks for firing up the soldiers. We need more encouragement like yours to keep everyone going… otherwise things might drift off course. Keep up the good fight.
We have about 8 months I believe to gather the signatures.
August 20, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Bryan, every time they give a ticket to people like your wife (ones that are good drivers with zero violations), they get another signature for the ballot, and another vote to ban the cameras. The City of Tucson and ATS are abusing their cameras, and at the rate they are going, they are rapidly losing public support for them. They were clever in that they put all the red light cameras near the city limits means most of the tickets are going to people who can’t vote for the city council.
Your wife didn’t do anything wrong – I bet she followed the procedures taught to her in drivers ed and the procedure in the Arizona Driver License Manual. There is nothing in either of those places that mentions the prolongation of the line from the curb of the intersecting street. They tell you to stop at the stop bar. It is a 50 foot difference at Oracle and River.
She won’t win if she fights it. The only way she will win is if she chooses not to play. Don’t respond to the mailing, don’t look at the video online, don’t answer the doorbell so they can’t serve you. It is sad that they are treating law abiding citizens like law breakers, because that changes people into law breakers.
August 20, 2009 at 10:23 pm
Anything for you James…
August 21, 2009 at 11:32 pm
No. But your getting close. Behave yourself. You can disagree… You don’t have to be disrespectful.
August 22, 2009 at 6:23 pm
Why should the mod have to show an obvious and proven shill his respect much less anything else?
You repeatedly state that the cameras are staying up and that there is nothing we can do about them and yet, if there were no chance that we and many, many others could make a difference and get them removed you would not be here trying to disuade us from trying.
Considering all the bad press the cams have gotten, the shootings and etc the chances are that the cameras WILL be coming down. Just because no one bothers to run things through you Ernie doesnt mean that nothing is going on to continue the move towards removing the cameras…your simply just not a consideration in any way.
The cameras will come down. We and many others state wide will continue to work at having them outlawed. And, were I you, I’d not be pissing of the legit members of this forum much less the moderator IF you wish to continue spewing your stupidity here further.
August 23, 2009 at 1:56 am
Ernest, Why are you so against us speaking out?
If you feel so strongly about your views, why don’t you start your own blog?
-bc
August 23, 2009 at 10:00 am
I just got flashed while making a right turn at the intersection of Wilmot and 22nd. It was a red light, and I’m not sure I came to a complete stop before I turned right… I think I “rolled” a little. It may be that I’m just a huge idiot, but I honestly didn’t know this was illegal until I got flashed just now. It probably should have occurred to me that it would be – I know complete stops are required at stop signs – but it just didn’t. I made a mistake, but I didn’t endanger anyone’s life ( I certainly looked left before I turned, and there was no one coming) and I don’t think I should have to pay $280. I don’t think what I did counts as “running” a red light.
I’m am so furious right now. The economy is in a recession, my job was just cut to 32 hours a week… who has the funds to pay for this kind of thing? I certainly don’t have almost $300 to just throw away. The City of Tucson need to find a new way to make money.
One more question: I just bought a new car and still have those temporary “paper” plates taped to the back end of my car. No plates on the front end. Will this make a difference at all?
August 23, 2009 at 8:23 pm
Jaime, it depends on whether they can read the plates, but either way, if you receive a notice in the mail, you are under no legal obligation to respond to it (even though the language they use in it sounds all formal and nasty and threatening). Make them come and serve you personally.
August 23, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Ernest T. Bass, you are a nutjob. I’ve seen your name all over the comments at the Tucson Citizen and Daily Star Web sites for some time now – don’t you have anything better to do with your time? And for the record, I admitted that what I did was wrong. I should have come to a complete stop. Secondly, I bought my new car BEFORE my job decided to cut our hours, and that’s none of your business anyway. A minor infraction like the one I made would have gotten me a warning if a cop had seen me, but because of these stupid cameras and their lack of a human element, I’m going to have to pay almost $300 that I really can’t afford to pay. And please do not come south 100 miles – we don’t need an ass like you in our city.
August 23, 2009 at 9:12 pm
You know Ernest, I have no idea why I’m debating these issues with you because I think you’re incapable of getting it..but I will try one last time;
Government has one, ONE, constitutional mandate and that is to protect it’s citizens..that’s it!
It’s not providing abortions, or health care or taking God out of Schools, or taking my money and giving it to those that have become accustom to depend on Government or putting of photo radar ATM stands. Its protecting the People… as in “the common defense’..
Janet, “the ding bat”, ex-governor of AZ, For YEARS, argued that she could, or would, not do anything, on the border because it was a “federal issue”.. Well guess what Ernest..She’s now that part of government that she claims should fix the border problem…the federal government!
What has she done as part of the “federal government”..not JACK SQUAT!
Hence my comment that SHE is responsible for the deaths of not only the agent’s death, but any U.S. citizen that is hurt or murdered by the criminals coming freely across our borders, is right on target.
You have no law enforcement or border experience Ernest..I do. And I can tell you, the border is out of control!
Why? The answer is obvious… The country is so politically split, Dem’s depend on the illegal align vote…
Get it now Ernest!
August 24, 2009 at 1:20 am
What Ernest T Bass says does not matter. No matter what you say he will call it a lie, much like Lenin did, so I have stopped expending any effort worrying about him.
I have some more things in my mind to write, so back to the grindstone.
August 24, 2009 at 3:27 am
James…you’re right..It’s useless
I’m done talking to this guy..
August 24, 2009 at 3:54 am
Ernest, this really shows me how really uninformed you are..I feel sorry for you, you really don’t understand even the basic civics lesson..
1. illegal aliens do vote, they just do it illegally. Why do you think AZ passed a law mandating Voter ID…and your buddy Janet was against it.
2. Who’s talking about foreign policy, protecting the border is a domestic issue. But this says allot about you liberal wacky thinking, because I’m sure you are thinking that we need to get Mexico’s permission to protect our own border. Holly Cow!
3. You have NO idea what you’re talking about. The is not an issue congress deals with..they make laws, and the laws are already on the book..if Janet is power less then why was she appointed Sec of Home Land Security.
She has the power to direct U.S. Customs/ Border patrol, to STOP all border if she wanted to.
4. I have no idea what you’re saying here?
Buy the way, Police offices do participate in drug enforcement with U.S. Customs and we do enforce immigration, human trafficking and drug trafficking laws. Just ask Sheriff Joe and Sheriff Babeu…two great leaders..
It’s obvious you are paid hacker..equally obvious, you must be making less than min wage..
August 24, 2009 at 5:57 pm
Ernes, you’re a complete idiot!
“mexico is a foreign country and therefore any laws enacted to tighten the border have foreign policy implications”…Wow, what a moron. You are clueless..
August 27, 2009 at 11:33 pm
I just got a red light ticket from the wilmot/22nd light in the mail, it was my wife driving but the ticket is in my name. I went to violationinfo.com to view the pictures and attempt to see the video thats supposed to be there but I am unable to get the video to load on 4 different computers. (3 at my house and one at a friends) I made sure the divx player was installed and tried in IE8, FF 3.5, and Opera, no luck. I even viewed the page source of the video popup to see if I could get the video stream and just paste directly into windows media player or winamp…again no luck. I really have to wonder if there really is a video at all? I would like to know if anyone else has been able to see the video’s from violationinfo.com I dont really want to try and fight if I cant see for myself if what my wife tells me is true (lol I trust her I just want to see this video!) her story is that she was well in the intersection when the cars in front of her stopped for someone who ran into the crosswalk and no you can’t see the person in the pictures because the crosswalk is just out of frame but if I could at least see the cars in front coming to a stop well than I may have something to go on. thanks
August 28, 2009 at 1:53 am
1) Never ever view your citation on these web-sites. You may be waiving your rights to process.
2) You are under no obligation to self investigate. In other word; you do NOT have to tell any one who was driving your vehicle.
3) You DO NOT have to respond to the “citation” received in the mail. The only time you need to appear in court is when you are ordered by a warrant or a legal process server servers YOU, not your door or your dog.
4) You can not have your license suspended if you ignore the mailed “Citation”.
5) Do not Ignore the citation if you are served, in person, by a process server.
6) If it were me; I would toss anything sent in the mail..it’s not worth the paper it’s written on.
September 9, 2009 at 6:27 am
Well I just got nabbed on the 22nd & Wilmot intersection for a “red on red” violation. Both me and my passenger KNEW FOR A FACT that I was passed the stop line before the infraction took place. I’m 23 and really can’t afford to have this on my insurance so my question is this…
I want to ignore the paper citation. However, if I get personally served, will I still be able to attend defensive driving school (I know I’m eligible)? I’m not about to go up against “the man” in court despite honestly knowing I did not run a red light. I know I’ll still have to pay the service fee regardless, but this wouldn’t look good on my record for being so young.
Chad Wilcox – The video did not play for me as well. And I’m a computer guy myself, makes me wonder if Tucson is really digressing into a police-state who knows everything and hides it as well. Scary.
September 9, 2009 at 11:49 pm
That NOT what you were cited for…
If you were behind another vehicle and the light turned red..you will get issues the citation..the vehicle in front will not.
September 10, 2009 at 12:16 am
I meant “right on red.”
September 10, 2009 at 6:03 pm
When you say you were in the intersection, how are you defining “intersection”. Past the stop bar? Past the crosswalk? Or past the imaginary line? Was it your front or rear bumper that was past?
The correct answer should be past the imaginary line. I get differing opinions from the folks at 791-4440 about whether it is the front or rear bumper.
September 11, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Great! Ernie TubAss is back…time to track down exactly who he is and where he is at.
September 15, 2009 at 10:33 pm
Hi Robert!
September 16, 2009 at 12:53 am
Anyone having Ernies name, address, phone or any other info on this afterbirth, please mail it to me at netavenger1@gmail.com
September 17, 2009 at 2:05 am
He’s not worth it Robert. He’s some paid hack from RedFlex..
September 22, 2009 at 7:34 pm
I’m hoping you can offer some advice. My BF was driving my car and was speeding, saw the flash and knows I’m going to receive a ticket. Will I get a ticket in the mail, be served and how do I respond since it’s clearly a male, not me (female) driving my car? Thanks!!!
September 23, 2009 at 9:59 pm
You are not legally obligated to reply to anything you get in the mail.
You are also NOT legally obligated to reveal who the driver was (even though the “threatening” notice makes it sound like you are).
If you get a notice in the mail, you could do one of two things. Option #1: check the box that says you weren’t the driver, include a copy of your DL, and send it back to them WITHOUT admitting who the driver is.
Option #2: Don’t respond to the mailed notice. Make them serve you personally (come to your door and HAND you the violation). The problem is you may get stuck with a $26 process-server fee. But still, the harder you make it for the photo enforcement shmucks, the better.
September 23, 2009 at 10:00 pm
First off, you are not legally obligated to reply to anything you get in the mail.
You are also NOT legally obligated to reveal who the driver was (even though the “threatening” notice makes it sound like you are).
If you get a notice in the mail, you could do one of two things. Option #1: check the box that says you weren’t the driver, include a copy of your DL, and send it back to them WITHOUT admitting who the driver is.
Option #2: Don’t respond to the mailed notice. Make them serve you personally (come to your door and HAND you the violation). The problem is you may get stuck with a $26 process-server fee. But still, the harder you make it for the photo enforcement shmucks, the better.
September 24, 2009 at 2:33 am
I too rec’d a notice/ticket/scam for my hard earned cash from crossing in to the 22nd/Wilmot intersection. I was going 37 miles an hour, 3 below the posted of 40.
What has this taught me?
Only to further distrust the government of Tucson.
The light was yellow. My three children will attest to that. But we all know in a court, I’d get laughed at.
Now, I will SLAM on my brakes at every yellow light in order to avoid the $300 fine that I could incur if I don’t. If I am already in the intersection and the light is yellow, I will now SLAM on my gas to get heck out of there.
Gee, that’s really creating a safer Tucson, but I can’t afford this again, as I’m sure anyone else who had this happen will attest.
I will gladly sign a petition and vote for the cameras to come down.
Those that are for them will not be that way once they receive a ticket and know how this feels. I have not had a citation since I was 16 years old. That was 20 years ago. This is ridiculous.
September 24, 2009 at 4:58 am
Jennifer: I made them serve me and I never got charged for it. It’s listed in my court record, but no amount next to it. That was last December, however. They may have gotten more organized since then.
Smile: Welcome to the ranks of the “newly enlightened.” There are some Tucson Events coming up. Petition signings and a demonstration. Specifics will be on the Meet-up site.
September 24, 2009 at 6:53 am
I GOT SERVED TODAY!
Well, I am going to share this information.
I have been a Pima County Registered Officer of the Superior Court (Process Server) for roughtly 30+ years.
I am currently employed as one of the many Process Server’s employed by Hawkins and E-Z Messenger Legal-Support Provider’s, LLC.
As outlined on this site, I am very familar with the Process Server who has been accused of failing to properly serve numerous American Traffic Solution’s Arizona Traffic Ticket and Complaint’s, in conjuction with the Tucson Police Department’s Photo Enforcment, including improper service of other legal documents.
It has been also alleged this individual signed and filed false affidavit’s of service in Tucson City Court and other courts as well. As a Process Server of HELP, LLC we have taken steps in order to correct the improper serve’s by re-serving those documents.
Unfortunately, over the years being in this business, there have been many server’s who DO NOT serve process in a proper manner thus causing others to suffer because of their failure to serve process in a diligent and proper manner. I am not aware this individual has been charged criminally or wether he will face criminal charges.
Everyone should be aware the Traffic Ticket and Complaint’s contain a Summons to appear. The court should not ajudicate the matter from the mailing because there is no actual proof wether the document was actually received through the mailing.
However, in a lot of instances since there is no response or an appearance being made, the Arizona Traffic Ticket and Complaint’s are then sent electronically to our computer server, printed and sent out for service.
Once we’ve obtained proper service of the Arizona Traffic Ticket and Complaint’s the court’s are sent our signed affidavit of service, also electronically. Yes!, if proper service has not been accomplished, then this matter is unresolved by no service being obtained and the matter basically just goes away.
Here is my intesting situation………………
I was flashed. I can only ASS-U-ME the Arizona Traffic Ticket and Complaint, was mailed, which I will neither admit or deny having received.
Well, today, Wednesday September 23, 2009 my supervisor served me at the office. I responded as being an employee’s of Hawkins E-Z Messenger Legal-Support Provider and being my supervisor he as well as the company has violated my right by not giving me the same opportunity, privlidge and ability to effectively avoid service of the Arizona Traffic Ticket and Complaint like anyone else within the community and this matter will not go away because of the lack of proper service.
I also stated there is a conflict of interest due to the fact the company and or my supervisor being a server will receive the service fee for the serve.
My supervisor stated he will remit an affidavit of the service without showing any service fee, which I will have no ability to know wether the service fee has been elminated on the affidavit.
September 24, 2009 at 5:44 pm
Gee, Don, I can’t tell if you are screwed or not.
All I know is, when I have TPD and Sheriff’s deputies privately telling me to trash the ticket hide from the process server, there is something seriously wrong.
September 24, 2009 at 11:31 pm
Welcome to our world, Don. I’m so sorry you are with us. We feel your pain.
Has anyone tried to spray clear lacquer on their license plates with results? Just spray paint lacquer… I’ll head to the paint store. It’s worth a shot.
^^
September 25, 2009 at 4:35 am
Krylon Acrylic Crystal Clear GLOSS
Indoor/Outdoor
Protective, Non-Yellowing Clear Finish
$2.97 at the local Wal-Mart
From high angles, *metal plates with numbers and letters on them* become illegible. Head on, aimed directly at a plate does nothing.
Looking at your plate, there is no noticeable difference from any other plate.
Fun science experiment! You may wish to try it at home as well.
September 25, 2009 at 4:36 am
…that’s with a digital flash camera.
September 25, 2009 at 5:00 am
i.e. It works.
September 25, 2009 at 1:54 pm
It’s hard to feel sorry for ya Don…know what I mean…
September 28, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Thanks to everyone for the advice. Guess I’m going to wait for the ticket in the mail
September 29, 2009 at 3:36 am
I’m curious. How many people would pay the fine, because they knew they had done wrong? My fear is that many people posting here are simply upset because its’ ‘unfair’ how they were caught. The person seems to think it only counts, if a human catches you. I would suggest that the ethical fiber of a person can be judged not by what they are seen doing, but by the things done when others aren’t watching.
Now, I do believe there is a legitimate concern over misuse of images/plates not related to speeding offenses. Most of the posts seem more about avoiding responsibility or theorizing on what could go wrong rather than solving law enforcement issues while protecting the privacy of citizens.
Have I misunderstood?
September 30, 2009 at 2:17 am
I paid for defensive driving school and got 100% on my test. I took responsibility for what happened whether I believe it was right or wrong.
No one has to spray clear gloss lacquer on their license plate either. I was putting that there for people considering the $20 alternative that can be ordered via the internet because I’m not here to make money off of them. No one has to answer the door when being served. No one has to pay the ticket or take driver classes, or turn in the other driver if they were not the person in their car. No one has to feel bad for Don, but I do. We are all human and have free will.
The whole idea of robots and cameras policing the world is so very much like the movie Demolition Man that I personally, am disturbed by it. The potential for corruption is there.
Our city needs more budget money.
Yellow light times can be changed.
Employees that work as servers get paid per serve.
It’s bad times economically. In desperate times, people will do desperate things. Corruption has already reared its ugly head. People in other countries where this has happened are not happy with it. At least here we can vote…if this gets to the ballot.
I’ve signed up to gather signatures. For those out there that believe these cameras are wrong, please sign up to gather signatures, too. And if you like the cameras, that’s okay. You don’t have to sign a petition or vote for them to come down.
“You are fined one credit for a violation of the Verbal Morality Statute.” – Moral Statute Machine, Demolition Man
October 6, 2009 at 4:46 pm
I’m concerned about how the signs are posted on I-10 warning you about photo enforcement ahead. While driving in both directions recently I noticed the first sign was located just before an entrance ramp and the second sign located far after the entrance ramp but closer to the photo car which means oncoming vehicles do not get the proper notification of “two” signs that there is photo enforcement ahead.
It is not bad enough that they are trying to steal money out of your pockets but now they are trying to do it more fraudulently.
October 7, 2009 at 4:24 pm
Richard, I have noticed that, too. They will also set up after an on-ramp, but before a speed limit sign, so you don’t know what the speed limit is. I have seen that on I-10 and I-17, and also on US 60 east of Superior.
Wear a bandana over your face like the bandits in the old westerns did. If they can’t identify you, they can’t ticket you.
October 13, 2009 at 5:46 pm
Hey Richard, just so we are clear, they are by law required to post warning signs before hand at two separate distances. They have been caught numerous times violating that law.
December 27, 2009 at 7:58 pm
Do you accept donations? Where to?